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Classical Chinese: merely an academic persuit?
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gato -



Quote:

The farther I go in learning English, the bigger obstacle my poor proficiency of Chinese -- my
mother tongue -- presents me with. In improving my Chinese, modern novels or textbooks don't help
much.

Learning classical Chinese helps you learn English?



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wushijiao -

Just to play the devil's advocate, how much time does it take to become good at Classical? In my
case, I would estimate that I've spent not too much time, maybe, a total of 20-30 hours studying
classical, if that. And yet I couldn't do too well with most classical texts, besides the most
basic, basic stuff.

To some degree, I think one's time is better spent studying today's Chinese. Of course, I hope to
one day have a good understanding of classical, so I'm not trying to deny its greatness or
inherent value. I also think that people should study what they love, and if one has a deep
affection for classical and ancient Chinese, then go for it. But it would seem to me that if a
Chinese program (at a university) were to have people study classical without being fairly fluent
in modern Chinese, well, that's just a bit insane.

(Of course, I realize that the two are not mutually exclusive. Studying modern and classical both
helps with the other).










正在看牡丹 -

I don't know how much it will help me to improve my English through learning Classical Chinese,
but as I said in my last post, my poor proficiency of my mother tongue has been a great obstacle
in my learning of English.
After all, learning languages is actually learning cultures. Although there're so many
cross-cultural differences, we are all human. If I don't know enough about my own culture, I think
in later stage, it will inevitably become an impedement.










heifeng -

I basically agree with this..



Quote:

As a huge proponent of learning classical, there is the added benefit of being able to better
understand modern grammar and all those sentence patterns and vocab people use in everyday speech.
plus you can read the wuxia xiaoshuo novels with greater ease.


Back in my time (or before my uni decided some students actually wanted to major in Chinese to
learn the language instead of doing research hehe) I had to go through a full year of classical
Chinese after our 2nd year of Chinese (and THEN the department changed the major since I think
most students really hated studying classical Chinese 哼, anyway who knows, at the time x number
of years ago I was also a lil' irritated my classical chinese was probably better than my spoken
chinese ). Then at BNU I also took another semester in their literature dept because I did enjoy
studying it to a certain extent and realized I had only covered the tip of the iceburg before. Did
it help me in learning modern Chinese? In terms of spoken communication, not really. However, in
other situations I guess I don't get freaked out too much if I see some classical Chinese. If you
really do seriously study classical Chinese I think you have to do it because you enjoy it and
perhaps for research because the amount of time you spend studying Classical Chinese isn't gonna
really reward itself with that many practical applications. The most I use my Chinese classic
'training' in is watching soap operas about the different dynasties and when I'm reading maybe I
don't get thrown off by classical stuff as much, plus there are some phrases from classsical
Chinese that are nice to throw into your own writing....In terms of studying with other foreign
students who never learned it before I think I have noticed I have a small advantage~~ at least
with my (minimal)classical background I could have gone without the lecture on what this
'classical' phrase or grammar point, or less commonly used vocabulary, means everytime some
'classical' Chinese popped up in modern text....

Overall, practical or not after studying some classical Chinese I at least feel I had a fairly
"well-rounded" education in Chinese, which is nice when you generally( ) enjoy studying the
language...










gato -



Quote:

I don't know how much it will help me to improve my English through learning Classical Chinese,
but as I said in my last post, my poor proficiency of my mother tongue has been a great obstacle
in my learning of English.

Can you give some examples? How much schooling did you have in China and how much in the West?










正在看牡丹 -

Ah, sorry for the ambiguity of my explanation.
I'm an English major and has been learning English since my junior school, that is, nearly ten
years ago. As for my Chinese, I'm no worse than most Chinese natives, and better than many of
them, although I'm surely far below the scholars.
The biggest problem my poor Chinese presents me with is when I'm doing translation or
interpretation work. I can fully understand both languages, yet I find it very hard to well
express the meaning, especially in Chinese. I can stammer out the meaning and contonations to soem
extent, but the target language is... AWFUL.
It doesn't have much to do with eloquence really. I can write down my own ideas and thinkings in
fairly good Chinese or English, but when it comes to translation? My mother tongue is what lets me
down.










studentyoung -



Quote:

I can fully understand both languages, yet I find it very hard to well express the meaning,
especially in Chinese. I can stammer out the meaning and contonations to soem extent, but the
target language is... AWFUL.
It doesn't have much to do with eloquence really. I can write down my own ideas and thinkings in
fairly good Chinese or English, but when it comes to translation? My mother tongue is what lets me
down.

Don’t worry, don’t worry, 正在看牡丹. The case you express is something so common among
green-handed translators and interpreters. The key here is that you haven’t got used to use your
mother tongue to express the meaning in foreign language contexts at once, and vice versa. As you
major in English, you might understand that translation is not a simple word-to-word job. You have
to first grasp the meaning of the context, and then choose the right words to express. For some
people, they can do it at once because of their familiarity to the contexts & terms and their
skills on languages and cultures.

Take it easy and take it slow, 正在看牡丹. I am sure you are on you way to be a good
translator and interpreter.

Thanks!










gato -

I see what you mean, 正在看牡丹. Because your English is so good, I had thought that you
lived in the West. I see many new Chinese translators have problems translating English into
Chinese as well. The logical structure of English sentences tend to much more complicated than
English. A lot of novice translators end up with Chinese translations that are very hard to read
and don't sound like Chinese at all.

I would recommend that you regularly read the Financial Times's Chinese site. Many of the articles
online have both the English original and a Chinese translation. I think the translators they use
are very good. You might want to try translating some of the articles yourself first and then
compare your translation with theirs.
See http://www.ftchinese.com/










正在看牡丹 -

Thank you for your encouragement and help, Studentyoung and Gato! I'll try my best not to be so
lazy as I am that's my biggest problem in my learning: not persistent enough.
Gato, thank you for your recommendation! I like FT too, although I haven't got much chance to read
it and I didn't know it has both English and Chinese versions. I'll take your suggestions about
translation learning and practice when I have my own computer here in Shanghai. That's great idea!
Thank you!
Thank you both!
正在看牡丹












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